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chosa @chosafine
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If the short term goal is to rebuild the web on decentralized apps and stuff, what’s next?

once peertube and pixelfed and all of these platforms become stable and feature rich enough for everyday use, how do we teach literacy to people who aren’t nerds

· Web · 24 · 28

and honestly even a lot of nerds don’t exactly understand why concentrations of power are a bad thing

my guess would be informative media and stuff, like easy to digest videos pods comics and blogs go a long way to improve literacy, although my only hope is that they’re tastefully done lol

@chosafine i have time to give to this, just not much to figure out what is needed or where

also when is the club

@amphetamine the club is when I learn how to properly program so probably never lol

@amphetamine cannolis are best served cold and not hot take

@amphetamine this joke worked better in my head

@chosafine i giggled

also it's too hot for hot takes rn amirite

i think thats why i've stuck to cold ones recently

@chosafine yea that's the truth

it's jorts and baseball weather, which is bittersweet for a lotta friends

@amphetamine i sometimes forget baseball exists, been on that fútbol game for a hot minute

But yeah I get you

@amphetamine I’d be willing to play ball tho

@chosafine yea i gotta order a couple gloves and a bat, my life needs this

@chosafine what exactly do you mean by literacy? I'm assuming some kind of familiarity with the ubderlying tech? The premise being that if people understand it then they can pre-empt attempts to consolidate power?

@alex tech literacy as in having a high level understand of how computers works and how these systems are built especially with social networks online

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@chosafine alas, my experience of nerd/tech culture from 1980s high school in England to the 2 years I was at Uni) was 90% of nerds/techs actively *wanted* concentrations of power, as long as they became *part of them*, and this indeeed happened in Europe. Several countries recently had (UK) or currently have (NL,FR,AT) Gen X/Y leaders.

OTOH I was never bullied at high school, in contrast I had friends from literally every subculture, maybe these formative experiences are *very* important ?

@vfrmedia I think so as well, but I think nowadays there’s a whole cultural shift where that doesn’t happen as much

@chosafine it does seem attitudes are changing in high school (in UK and US) but when British kids are interviewed they say "I want to be a startup entrepreneur developing a mobile phone app and make money like Americans" or "I want to be a social media influencer" rather than building things for communities (not even traditional careers like nursing or working for the electric or telecoms utility, there are jobs unfilled in these fields even with the companies recruiting..)

@vfrmedia @chosafine noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

good goddess fly me out there and let me disillusion those poor kids about the US

@amphetamine @chosafine there are a few Brits who are currently doing well from being "youtube stars" but I'm unsure how long this phenomenon is going to last, especially as Google keep changing their rules and "edgy" content is ultimately going to either result in regulation by Ofcom or some other body (and google randomly removing ads like they always seem to do).

Its certainly *not* a long term career, any more than normal telly was for most "yoof TV" stars of my era..

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@chosafine
Turn them into nerds.

I’m only half joking. Our world transformed to a mix of physical and digital in the last few decades. Everyone should understand how this new thing works, so they can choose (or even install) their own instances wisely.

@gergely I like the easy to digest zines that people make that explain admittedly complex and heavy tech concept with nice pictures and easy to read explanations

@chosafine We'd need to make it cheaper and easier, to begin with.

@ChrisWere @chosafine It would be nice to have digital ocean or someone have easy deploy of fediverse instances. Tho that doesn't inform normies as to why they should use them.

@squeakypancakes @chosafine The "normies" in all honesty don't and won't care. They don't about almost every other facet of infrastructure. It seems to me that the most successful OSS projects have three keystones. One, price; two, convenience and three, a big-ass marketing budget.

The first two, we can eventually achieve, but I can't see the open-source community contributing to a marketing fund. We just expect and/or demand people to care and I don't see success in that.

@squeakypancakes @chosafine Our arguments, post-parity, will be most effective at infrastructure level. Convincing libraries, schools, universities, businesses and just let the public follow in as they may.

@ChrisWere
We need governments. Sorry if that's a dirty word. Big players are either governments or corporations, and the last will only use FOSS if there's a way to profit from it.
@squeakypancakes @chosafine

@eladhen @squeakypancakes @chosafine There could be benefits if a group like the BBC got on board, as long as the federation is maintained. They do a lot for short-wave radio.

@ChrisWere @chosafine

There is hope, if the cost (literal or metaphorical) of using the centralised service is high enough to drive its content makers away.

Meetup.com's content makers (the organisers) pay a heavy fee for using it, almost $200 a year for a very simple webpage. If they moved to a decentralised alternative because it was cheap/free, the events would move and then so would the end users.

@squeakypancakes

There are some doing this, e.g. masto.host

@switchingsocial @chosafine @squeakypancakes While there is hope, it's also worth noting that the likes of YouTube are willing to operate at a considerable loss to keep consumers in their domain. We're up against some very determined giants.

@ChrisWere @switchingsocial @chosafine Not all silos have the funding of G behind them. Those are the ones we should target first.

@ChrisWere @chosafine @squeakypancakes

YouTube's an interesting example.

On the one hand it has unlimited resources, but on the other YT/Google is its own worst enemy.

They treat their content makers like dirt, switching algos without warning (which has ruined many pro YouTubers financially), tricking viewers into signing up to G+, not responding to mistakes etc.

Their weird behaviour towards Blender and others gave PeerTube a huge boost, PT crowdfunding shot up massively afterwards.

@switchingsocial @ChrisWere @chosafine I'm not saying there isn't a reason to use peertube but you would need to convince content creators that giving up all their ad revenue. For smaller channels that might not be anything at this point but the larger channels that make 6 figures or more a year off ads prolly wont move.

@squeakypancakes @switchingsocial @chosafine Very true and definitely an area with FLOSS needs to catch up, is with monetisation.

Even channels as small as mine suffer quite badly from moving to PeerTube and Bitchute since YouTube ad revenue supplements my income.

@squeakypancakes @ChrisWere @chosafine

If they were making 6 figures consistently then no they wouldn't leave. But YT's algo has changed so often without warning, sometimes reducing income overnight by over 90% 😱

PeerTube has a lot of potential partly because it gives content creators complete control, over content and monetisation.

Google is too opaque, too unstable, for too many years.

That Google Plus thing alone alienated a lot of major YTers:

youtube.com/watch?v=LTq8TrA3hb

@switchingsocial @squeakypancakes @chosafine Yeah, I've suffered such consequences, but the trouble is, it doesn't drive YouTubers to other platforms, it just drives us offline to other jobs.

@ChrisWere @switchingsocial @chosafine For most people the only video platform is youtube as it comes installed on their phones. Most people don't install alternatives they just use what is default or they know about it.

The only thing I can think of right now is the need for a video equivalent of switter. Maybe if Blender is a repeat incident or something. People will push for peertube more.

@ChrisWere I always thought that youtubers with similar interests should get together and create small networks of self-curated content paid for by ads, pretty much like TV channels. PeerTube makes this easy and cheap.

Problem is how to get them together. Also the fact that they would have to become entrepreneurs as well as content creators, and most don't want that.

But if a couple of instances like those were created, a lot more would follow.

@switchingsocial @squeakypancakes @chosafine

@switchingsocial @ChrisWere @chosafine @squeakypancakes Everything right, but the key point is, with YT you can earn money, not with Peertube, where anything else speaks for PT ;-)

@Levenfort @switchingsocial @chosafine @squeakypancakes Sad but true. Earnings and discoverability are two things YT has that no other platform even comes close to competing with (except perhaps Amazon with livestreaming, but they're no better).

@ChrisWere @Levenfort @chosafine @squeakypancakes

Some YTers seem to be turning to patreon? That's platform independent and would provide income even without any ads.

However, they would still need an audience in order to build up Patreon supporters, so it comes down to discoverability.

@switchingsocial @Levenfort @chosafine @squeakypancakes The money that comes through on Patreon is a tiny fraction of YT ad revenue. There may be exceptions, but to those of us who don't want to pay-wall our content, it's not a reliable option.

Even people who pledge are first to unpledge to the non-pay-wall content creators once the cash gets tight.

@switchingsocial

The main problem with a Meetup alternative is discoverability for non-technical users.

I still keep a Meetup account up to this day because it help us connect to the occasional new friend.

I'd never have met @Avalon without it, for example.

I really want to see an alternative like gettogether happen. I am just unsure how to crack that discoverability issue.

@ChrisWere @chosafine @squeakypancakes

@RussSharek

I guess it's a chicken and egg thing.

But maybe sometimes unexpected events happen (scandals, technical problems, price rises) which suddenly shakes things up, and make people look around for alternatives. If that happens, it's good to have them ready and waiting.

The better the alternative is when people give it a chance, the greater the likelihood people stick with it.

@Avalon @ChrisWere @chosafine @squeakypancakes

@switchingsocial

Absolutely.

I've been considering trying an alternative for the events I host. Maybe I can mirror for now. Hm

@Avalon @ChrisWere @chosafine @squeakypancakes

@switchingsocial @RussSharek @Avalon @ChrisWere @chosafine Gettogether is free you just have to deploy it somewhere. Something like masto.host could work if its $5 a month its still cheeper than meetups $10 or $15 options. convince enough groups to try it.

@squeakypancakes

One of my great frustrations is my local community is decidedly tech adverse and Facebook embedded.

@switchingsocial @Avalon @ChrisWere @chosafine

@squeakypancakes @switchingsocial @RussSharek @Avalon @ChrisWere @chosafine Maybe something like Dreamhost's one-click installation panel? "Click here to install Mastodon." ("Uncheck this box to make it not federate.")