there's definitely a line of "we're moderate therefore we're the only thing that'll happen" and that kind of biden-ism is gross, really gross

like, I can see where it's gross

my concern is in anyone shutting down a good person's good business idea

@rebutte the fact you know what people are saying about biden shows we're coming at this conversation from very different places, because I don't even talk to people who are into electoral politics these days; we'll show up and vote but literally don't waste breathe on the topic.

@emsenn I've known loads of people who refuse to vote or discuss things and I'm like... you're silencing your voice by not doing so...

if the DNC pisses you off, then organize about it!

@rebutte @emsenn the challenge with pursuing an electoral strategy is it is very demobilising whether you lose or win.

Since change comes from below and moderates are often a reactive bunch, it suggests that the change is not happening within the context of an election campaign but somewhere else.

While I am not an anarchist, this essay does a good job of explaining why people devote their energy to the alternative, truthout.org/articles/the-lure

@rebutte @emsenn

Thanks! I still think it matters to have allies in power to shift the Overton window, to provide additional platforms for our ideas, and since in many settings these are the only institutions that can create and enforce the laws/policies we want.

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@zxv Agreed! Which is why I will happily talk to those folk about things that we can agree on, like direct action, unionism, etc. But like, Iunno. I'm not gonna spend a bunch of time brushing up on the history of the Green Bay Packers just because someone who might be fun to work with on a project is super into them.

Especially not if I think that, except for their use as a social bonding tool, the Packers are unethical af. @rebutte

@emsenn @zxv I am not nearly as aware of football as I am anarchism...

@emsenn @rebutte I have talked sports but really I just engage with people where they are and don't try to talk about stuff I don't know.

Often people want to be heard and it's actually easier to just be curious and let people talk about what they care about. So while I won't read up on it, I might say, “What makes you love the Packers?”. Truthfully these days the larger challenge for me is I don't know the music/movies/video games that are cool. So I can't have *that* discussion in any depth.

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